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ThirdMissions :: Jun 18, 2007 @ 5:19pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	ThirdMissions Here's an alternative to the built-in single-player mission list. Advantages: - Difficulty settings are hopefully more meaningful; if a difficulty is appropriate for you at one mission it will hopefully be appropriate at another. And even the highest difficulty still generates winnable levels (although they commonly take a few tries to figure out). - Missions are more varied and interesting, and all of them train skills which are actually useful for Galcon. (To a greater or lesser extent...) - The bots are more intelligent, and the only exploits possible are the ones that are intended to be possible. Disadvantages: - It's intended for experienced players only. Beginners will find even the lowest difficulty level to be very hard. But I wasn't willing to add lower levels; most of the included missions would lose their interestingness if dialed any easier (since then just about any strategy would work, instead of the one they're intended to practice). Somebody else can build a set of tutorial missions; these aren't that. I'm very much in the market for suggestions. Tell me what you like and what you don't like. Tell me if one mission's difficulty seems improperly scaled relative to the others. (Especially tell me if you find an exploit that lets you win highest-difficulty missions with ease.) Suggest additional missions (or better yet, submit the scripts for them), or additional skills that you want to practice. Submit more bots. post updated on Jun 18, 2007 @ 5:30pm reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 18, 2007 @ 5:28pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Initial release: - "Classic": based on "Classic" and "Massive" from the built-ins. - "Goliath": based on "Goliath" from the built-ins; for practicing your surprise attacks. - "Pairs": based on the teams example mod; for practicing your teamwork. - "Imperium": previously released as "Mission: Newbie"; for practicing dealing with weaklings. - "Crusher": based on "Copycat" and "Kamikaze" from the built-ins; really more of a toy than practice of anything. - "Rebellion": based partially on my Symmetry mod; for practicing dealing with gnats. - "Vaccuum": novel concept; for practicing your openings. The biggest stumbling block at the moment is insufficient bots. I've gone ahead and released the "Libra" bot, which I'd been holding in reserve in hopes of a tournament, but really wish that somebody else would offer some so it's not just philbots and thirdbots. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 18, 2007 @ 10:18pm
eckels Joined: Mar 4, 2007 Posts: 200	I havent been keeping up on the mods so much lately, but i just checked this one out tp, and I have to tell you i'm blown away. What a terrific mod. I've not played any of the new bots until now, and for me, the first time I saw a bot redirect ships, my pulse jumped. it was fantastic. I really enjoy this mod - especially the vacuum mission. It's tough but i'm getting there. I haven't played any of the missions on anything less than the top difficulty so i cant testify as to the playability of the lower levels. There seems to be an issue with the vacuum mission in particular - when I click on the vacuum button, i start hearing sound effects and such as if a game has started, but then a few seconds later the game loads up. it's definately some sort of bug. it happens every time. but that's hardly a blemish on this fantastic mod. good work, tp. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 18, 2007 @ 11:04pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Ah, sound effects; whoops. (I always play with sound off, so didn't think of it.) The Vacuum mod does a dry run through the level with a specially-designed bot, to decide how much time you get. (On top difficulty, you get four seconds more than the bot took. The bot is good at Vacuum.) It was the only way I could think of to get a time limit that was close to right while still making sure that all levels were winnable. Hey Phil, how do I turn the sound off during a level? ----- By the way, Eckels, I'm glad you like my bots. Green is "Cobra" and red is "Libra"; they're very similar bots with slightly different methods of target selection. I wish somebody else would write some, so there'd be ones with radically different strategies. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 19, 2007 @ 7:29am
eckels Joined: Mar 4, 2007 Posts: 200	I could use two more seconds on top difficulty/vacuum. I'm pretty fast and pretty efficient when it comes to gathering planets - and I'm always about 2-3 seconds away from completion. (out of the 20 or so games i played, 11 were that close. i won twice, but only after re-playing the board several times, and the rest of the time i was about 5 seconds away.) I've destroyed every other game in this mission pack on top difficulty - (except for the one where you start with two planets with 30 on them and the bot owns the board), and so I figure I'm a good example of how a good player should be able to do... maybe not, i dunno. Anyway, again great job. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 19, 2007 @ 10:09am
nanno Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 479 Location: Colorado	Your missions are awesome ThirdParty...just had a chance to play them this morning. I had the opposite experience from Eckels--I found alot of the missions to be very hard EXCEPT the vacuum level. I could beat every map I played (sometimes I had to try a few times) on the hardest setting. I'm going to play all these some more and tell you what I think later, since I only dabbled around with them for a few minutes this morning. Keep up the good work! reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 19, 2007 @ 7:38pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Eckels: second-highest level on Vacuum is exactly like the highest level except that it gives you two more seconds. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 20, 2007 @ 6:46pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	New release fixing all issues with the "Vacuum" mission: instead of actually running the bot against the level, with the ensuing delay and funny sounds, it now simply imagines running that bot. Accuracy is reduced slightly, but it now loads more-or-less as smoothly as any of the others. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 20, 2007 @ 8:28pm
SirGnip Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 59 Location: Chi-town	They third... great stuff! Lots of fun! I'm loving all the single player stuff... For feedback, I have a hard time being competitive in any of the missions when even set on a medium-ish difficulty. But, on Vacuum, I can beat on the highest level after only a try or two. But, I have to admit, I'm not the most seasoned Galcon-er out there.. With the new version, I get this exception if I play Vacuum, loose, see "Try Again?" and click "Yes": Traceback (most recent call last): File "mymods.pyc", line 413, in fnc File "mymods.pyc", line 560, in event File "mymods.pyc", line 514, in do_exec File "safe.pyc", line 128, in safe_exec File "safe.pyc", line 119, in safe_run File "", line 1, in ? File "mymods.pyc", line 648, in event File "mods\thirdmissions.zip\dialog.py", line 128, in event File "mods\thirdmissions.zip\dialog.py", line 174, in return_ File "mods\thirdmissions.zip\msn_vacuum.py", line 173, in copy AttributeError: Level_ instance has no attribute 'time' ['exec: g.event(e)'] reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 20, 2007 @ 9:53pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Oops, sorry about the exception in Vacuum. The team tournament started and so I didn't test it as much as I should have. Fixed. As for Vacuum's difficulty: I'm willing to take some time off the clock if you want. It currently gives four free seconds; it doesn't have to. See if you can win each time (given enough tries) with at least two seconds on the clock; if so, I'll toughen it up. But really--all of the missions should be winnable on even the hardest difficulty given a few tries. If they aren't, you're probably using the wrong strategy. I'm not convinced that Vacuum is easier than the others; maybe you're just using the wrong strategy on the others. (Or maybe I'm using the wrong strategy on Vacuum. That's entirely possible too.) reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 21, 2007 @ 9:36am
SirGnip Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 59 Location: Chi-town	Fixed now. Thanks. Naw, I wouldn't mess with vacuums timer yet. I feel the "expand-quickly-on-cheap-planets" is the one Galcon strategy I'm good at, so I feel what you got is a pretty reasonable setting. On the other missions, I haven't deduced the winning strategy (haven't spent much time). So, I'm getting mauled. Though, on Imperium, I did start making headway. But, you state in your initial post that the intent was these were for experienced players only. So, if that is the intent, I think they are good. When playing them on Ensign, even if I rarely win, I at least feel like I have a chance given a bit more time. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 26, 2007 @ 8:56am
felix-rabe Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 55 Location: Switzerland	I regularly loose a fleet at launch time - seen in the "Vacuum" and another level. I'm running Ubuntu Linux 7.04. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 26, 2007 @ 11:01am
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Felix: I've noticed that too, but haven't been able to track it down. Can you find a way to reproduce it? Can you tell whether the fleets are actually missing or are just invisible? reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 26, 2007 @ 1:05pm
felix-rabe Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 55 Location: Switzerland	Vacuumed forever. reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 26, 2007 @ 1:52pm
felix-rabe Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 55 Location: Switzerland	Sorry for the short response, I was heading for dinner there :) I think, you loose more fleets when you send fleets from many planets. And yes, they are missed dearly when trying to get those last expensive planets and all you get is a trickle of ships flying there... Btw, horrible stuff. It's too addictive :) reply
Phil? :: Jun 26, 2007 @ 9:35pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	Hey, Phil. ships are disappearing and I don't know why. I don't believe the problem to be in any of the exposed code. Can you help? reply
Re: Phil? :: Jun 27, 2007 @ 12:28am
philhassey Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 800 Location: Zarcon	Hey, Phil. ships are disappearing and I don't know why. I don't believe the problem to be in any of the exposed code. Can you help? Just tried out that mission again. (Vacuum) couldn't reproduce the issue. How do I make this happen? And what exactly do you mean by disappearing? reply
Re: Phil? :: Jun 27, 2007 @ 11:25am
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	You order a bunch of fleets to launch at once; the planet populations decrease accordingly; but the fleets never appear (except maybe one or two of them). reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Jun 27, 2007 @ 9:33pm
philhassey Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 800 Location: Zarcon	Ahh - I think I see the bug in my "mods" code .. I'll get that fixed up before I make my release here ... reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Aug 7, 2007 @ 5:48pm
thirdparty Joined: Dec 20, 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Eastern U.S.A.	ThirdMissions has been updated! (Phil, if you would update the copy that bundles with the application, I'd appreciate it.) Changes from previous version: - New mission, "Wormhole". Thanks to felix-rabe for the suggestion. A good defense practice. - The "get ready" screen of each mission has been replaced with a screen of explanatory text. - Interface now more closely resembles classic Missions interface, with a logo and planet buttons. (But planet buttons' colors reflect what you'll find inside the mission!) As always, I'm still looking for new bots, missions, mission ideas, whatever, to include. Balance comments are appreciated, especially on "Wormhole"; at any given difficulty setting, all missions are supposed to be of roughly equal difficulty (or roughly equal average difficulty; some missions inevitably have more randomness than others). Also, now that I've got info screens, there are bound to be typos; please tell me about them rather than just snickering. post updated on Aug 7, 2007 @ 7:55pm reply
Re: ThirdMissions :: Aug 8, 2007 @ 4:43pm
felix-rabe Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 55 Location: Switzerland	This is like in a horror movie with zombies - scary. I don't like horror movies ;-) but I like your implementation very much ThirdParty! I actually thought as well later that the "you have the whole universe in the beginning" thing is a bad idea. reply

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