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Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 2:06pm

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 651
Location: here

Rats... I always get to these kinds of threads too late. :-P
I guess that's a good thing actaully... free's up time. :-P


-Kunckles
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 2:09pm

 marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7241
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
So, let's say that meat doesn't have the "optimal" form of protein. What exactly is wrong with consuming it in moderation?
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 2:13pm

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 651
Location: here

Actually, I believe that is correct. Meat does have a protein that doesn't work as well as others. I see nothing wrong with it in moderation, plus, ;-) ;-), it tastes good. :-)
I don't mean to get into a "my scientist is smarter than your scientist" argument, but the person from whom I got the information is incredibly smart, and has tried, unsuccessfully, to change the stubborn medical community.


-Kunckles
post updated on Jun 22, 2012 @ 2:14pm
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 4:03pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Kunckles:
You're not too late at all! Feel free to critique anything I've said or laid out in my diet plan.

Marky:
There's nothing really really wrong with consuming it in "moderation". However, I don't like the word or idea of 'moderation', when it comes to nutrition. If by moderation you mean eating 1 serving of meat once a week, then sure, it probably won't hurt. But if by 'moderation' and 'balanced' meal, you mean 1 serving of meat once a day, then no, you're not doing your health a favor at all.

Meat has other reasons it's bad for you, not just the low-quality protein. Animal protein in general is carcinogenic, while plant-based protein is completely harmless, when eaten in a whole-food form. This is partly linked to the low-quality giant protein btw, since even after metabolism, clumps of the protein aren't processed fully and may float around your body causing biochemical havoc (simplistic explanation of carcinogenic claim). Further, meat has a high omega 6:3 ratio. It's also generally high in fat (bad fat like bad forms of saturated fat and omega 6) and high in cholesterol and high in calories. It's just a generally low quality form of nutrients and nutrition.

--

As I said though, I seek an optimal diet, not one that is good enough. Everyone has different goals. I want the best and I want to feel and perform at my best, now and forever. So, I follow a specific high quality diet to ensure this remains the case.
post updated on Jun 22, 2012 @ 6:26pm
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 6:30pm

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 651
Location: here

Mostly I mean late as in it would take too long to read all of the previous posts. :-)
Also, fat is not 100% bad for you. You actually need some for your body to work right, if I remember correctly it is especially important for certain brain functions to stay performing or to perform better.


-Kunckles
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 22, 2012 @ 7:29pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Haha okay :) There isn't much to read over though, so fell free to read it! A lot of the posts on page 1 are spam about bacon lol.

And yeah, fat isn't completely bad for you! Specifically, there's good fat and bad fat.

Good fat:
- omega 3 (ALA, EPA, DHA)
- omega 9 (I think)
- saturated fat (medium chain.. MCFA/MCT)
- monounsaturated (oleic acid)

Bad fat:
- omega 6 (all forms I think)
- saturated fat (long chain)
- trans fat
- hydrogenated fat

edit: Added detail to monounsaturated fat
post updated on Jun 25, 2012 @ 3:49am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 6:56am

 Nanno

Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 4641
Location: Colorado

The Queen Bee
Complicated diet is complicated. 

Any time you have to take supplements to make up for a lack in your food diet, then in my opinion it's probably unnatural and unhealthy. I also wonder about this newfangled diet we humans have that is all globalized and manufactured. Until quite recently, people had to eat whatever they could grow, raise, fish, or hunt locally. It's quite weird that people in this day and age can get foods from the other side of the world and pretend that these are suddenly essential for a proper diet. I wonder what human beings did before exotic global foods were available? 

On a side note, our area zoos have been campaigning against the use of coconut oil because the increased demand has caused the destruction of rain forests vital to the survival of the endangered orangutan. Sometimes you can't win for losing. 

Also, every person can't eat every diet. I feel sick when I don't drink enough milk (which is totally opposite to a lot of people). I feel sick when I drink very much plain water, not to mention it generally goes straight through me and leaves me as thirsty as ever. Milk is my energy drink. I can go nearly all day on just a glass of whole milk in the morning. I've found when I've had a good rare steak that I have more energy the next day than I know what to do with. There's a reason steak and eggs is the traditional breakfast for the Texas rancher. 

Phil is pretty much allergic to green vegetables. He got food poisoning from green veggies once, lost 10 lbs. in two weeks, couldn't eat normally for a couple of months, and his body has reacted adversely to them ever since. It's like his body identifies green veggies as a poison now. It's kind of convenient since he doesn't like them anyway. Now he has a "food allergy" excuse to skip the broccoli. 

Food you can hunt or raise yourself is cool. We're starting a goat farm, so goat milk, cheese, and goat meat will probably start making up a large part of our diet in the next few years. I'm also thinking of taking up hunting at some point. Phil has gotten venison for us a couple of times. Elk meat is delicious. I'd love to try wild turkey sometime. I grew up on wild ducks and geese. Sometimes when I was little, the birds and rabbits that my dad could shoot in our backyard in Dallas were what my family could afford to eat. For a lot of families even nowadays, hunting is what they can afford. Gardens are not always an option in certain climates, so fish and game is what is available if you're trying to avoid expensive grocery stores.   

"Whatever works for you" is my motto. Just don't come over to my house and expect me to serve a meatless, dairyless, sugarless meal. My great-grandmother lived to 103 and no one can remember her ever eating anything but dessert for the last 50 years. =)
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 8:22am

 wezley007

Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 732
Location: World of Wezley

Diets are useless. I just have a super fast metabolism and don't have to worry about what I eat.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 10:17am

 chi-ro

Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: 4005
Location: The cluster behind you..

Under-Sheriff
Also, every person can't eat every diet.


Most reasonable thing I've read here so far.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 1:52pm

 melek

Joined: Aug 14, 2010
Posts: 3632
Location: Mars

I dont find it funny to waste 3 hours a day thinking what you will eat
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 1:53pm

 melek

Joined: Aug 14, 2010
Posts: 3632
Location: Mars

Eat anything! Just dont exceed yourself!
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 7:07pm

 rhyperior

Joined: Feb 1, 2012
Posts: 582
Location: *snork* *snork* *bbfftt

HaHaHa. It'S been a while since I've even posted on these forums, but I just HAD to with all of this "New-Age" garbage being spewed around, and then passed off as an optimal solution for living. Laughable. I must apologize for my condescending and generally aggressive tone, however discussions such as these are generally based on opinion transferred into fact, and from the look of things so far, it seems to be a spot on viewpoint.

First off, absolutely nothing you've said so far is based on studies, or even a scientific basis. You've gone on about the inefficiency of meats protein, and the promise of vegetable based proteins( Whole food form? Did that need to be specified? And another problem with this, is the fact of something like green beans, or kale. Must I eat the whole of the roots, or the neck of the bean? I pray not, especially in the case of kale.) I've rambled on here, but in short, I'd like studies please, until those are provided, have a fun time on the "Guy who agrees with Homeopathy still" List.

Another problem I have with your criteria of a good diet is the promise of "It keeps me feeling good and energetic". Heads Up. Meth keeps me feeling like a superman, and I never need to sleep. Under your criteria(The only one provided thus far, from what I've seen, though honestly I didn't look very hard) Methamphetamine is the perfect diet. You feel super, and you could probably run forever if you kept up intake of it. This example of Meth was a bit of an exaggeration, however it does point out the fact that your diet could make you feel amazing, but make me feel awful. What then? Does this make the diet bad, or is it still "nutritionally optimal"(Haha. Still laughing over this one) This is a question that must be answered before any kind of scientific observation and study could be undertaken.

I suppose my largest problem with your diet, is the fact that it IS a diet. My lookout for a diet is this.

Rhyperior's Pimptastic Diet
Eat enough to be full.
Eat enough to keep up a healthy weight.
Don't eat enough so that I get fat.

THat's about it. There are so many outside question marks in life, that I hardly care to keep up a healthy diet. I'm going into welding. With the gas fumes, there's a high chance I'll be dead before I'm 60, but I accept these risks,and with your life, there's probably quite a few more question marks.(!Opinion Alert!) All this hubbabaloo over "Healthy" diets and longevity are for cowards who fear death, and probably don't live in the first place. I eat until I'm full, eat what's delicious, and eat what makes me happy. I find this to be the healthiest diet. I hope I'm not alone.
post updated on Jun 23, 2012 @ 7:09pm
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 9:13pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Not to be condescending, but a lot of the responses (actually specifically aimed at rhyperior and some others, not nanno) in this thread are purely ignorant and simpleton-like. And that's okay. It's your life and it's up to you (plural) how you all wish to live and what your goals, objectives, targets, means, abilities are.

My posts in this thread were simply intended to provide (if there is an audience for it, that is) the results of MY learning and considerable research into this topic. I don't have the time or inclination to cite all the sources I used and all the research I perused. I have investigated this topic in-depth though. Why? Because "you are what you eat." I believe if I can optimize what goes into my body, I can consequently optimize my efforts in whatever I do and live long and healthy and never worry about being sick or needing medications EVER. I believe these goals are completely possible, although some initial time, effort, and planning is required, as it is with all things in life that provide some meaningful gain. No pain, no gain!

I didn't mean to make this whole topic seem like a joke or game or easy? It's not. It's very hard and complicated and requires a significant investment of time to understand everything and implications. Supplements ARE also very hard to select, as chemical form, dosage, and bio-availability (absorption into your blood) must be carefully considered. In the study of nutrition, indeed much must be understood, including chemistry, biochemistry, nutrition science, and a lot more.

This is also a legit topic. Think of it this way: every time you eat/drink something, you may think of it as a chemistry experiment. You can either get an A during your daily eating/drinking, or you can get a B, C, or F. Food is simply chemicals and chemistry and reactions. Just for reference, Ray Kurzweil (a genius inventor, thinker, and futurist, and a source of inspiration for me) takes nearly 150 pills/day. I follow the geniuses who dedicate their lives to perfection, as well the scientists and researchers around the world who are in the same quest for health and longevity.

I also do take more nutritional supplements than what I listed (scientifically validated and from high quality sources that are absorbed well), but I didn't want to scare anyone, so I didn't list those extras.

As an example though, resveratrol is a substance found in the skin of red grapes (although you would need absurd amounts of red grapes to get enough resveratrol, hence the need for a supplement). Sure it's not natural to take it as a supplement, since you would never get those dosages in nature, but numerous studies have been done and shown incredible benefits, including influencing many hundreds of genes to activate in such a way that your body believes you are following a calorie-restricted diet (CRON), which is one of the most recognized ways to increase health-span and life-span (quality and quantity of life) by 25-30%.

There are numerous pathways for the aging process and the diet I am suggesting (and supplements) works synergistically to slow down/reverse these aging pathways and keep telomeres long.

Anyway, play the victim card and "just live life" or take charge of your destiny/life and educate yourself with the considerable and continuous research that is available and ongoing. There is nothing "new age" and ignorance is not bliss, it is simply ignorant... and lazy.

To each his own. I had hoped for a better response and more knowledgeable and intellectually curious people though...
post updated on Jun 23, 2012 @ 11:38pm
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 9:31pm

 marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7241
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
Don't post "this is true and everyone who disagrees is a simpleton, whether I provide any sort of proof or logic to my claims or not" and expect a good response.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 23, 2012 @ 9:40pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Marky, I've provided plenty of logic/science as proof for all my claims, or at least to all critiques in my posts on this thread. I'm just responding this way now because rather than respond to my logic/science, I see, "I like to not think and eat what I want." lol?

As for the original research and sources, I can't provide that since the quantity of research is overwhelming.

Some initial reading, though:
- The China Study by T. Colin Campbell
- Wheat Belly by William Davis
- Green for Life by Victoria Boutenko
- Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell B. Esselstyn
- Eat to Live by Joel Furhman

... and more research studies than I care to individually link.
post updated on Jun 24, 2012 @ 1:34am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 24, 2012 @ 1:22am

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Side note: I use the word 'diet' for convenience, but I don't mean a fad diet. I mean a search for the perfect diet that one can follow most days of their lives. That's what I'm following right now and intend to follow forever, while of course updating and improving it as new research emerges.

Wezley, I also have a super fast metabolism. This characteristic doesn't absolve us from caring about what we eat though. There is a lot, lot, lot more to food and health than how much fat you put on after eating. Did you know skinny people can get diabetes too? :)

Nanno, some people have good (magical almost) genes that allow them to live long and healthy without regard to their diet, like your grandmother it seems. Most people are not like this however. One can either choose a life of perfect health and wellbeing and fitness, or eat/live carelessly and suffer from chronic degenerative diseases and medications at some point in their life. And with the advancements in medical technology of today, it's likely people will get extremely sick and lose great quality of life, YET NOT DIE! So, they'll have to suffer and feel humiliated at their condition until perhaps 90 years of age, then finally succumb to death. My family has great genes too and is perfectly healthy, but I want to take the extra step to ensure even better/optimal health forever and completely keep cancer away.

Melek, you were right about omega-6. While omega-6 fat is generally inflammatory (bad), there is one form of omega-6 called GLA that is mostly anti-inflammatory (good), just like all the omega-3 fatty acids (ALA, EPA, DHA). It's a bit of a paradox.

More info here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid_interactions#The_paradox_of_dietary_GLA
post updated on Jun 24, 2012 @ 1:35am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 24, 2012 @ 3:15am

 rhyperior

Joined: Feb 1, 2012
Posts: 582
Location: *snork* *snork* *bbfftt

And there it goes. You're blaming food and diet for disease. I can see where you're coming from in diseases regarding obesity(However few there are) but applying it generally to every aspect of life cannot do. There is no way to prove any of those claims(without evidence.....cough)
 
Also, seeing as you've called everyone who didn't trust you totally, and asked for something other than hearsay an idiot, it's become rather obvious you don't understand 
A. How to make friends. 
B. Any sort of logical study, or argument. 

You simply can't stomp your feet, say you're right, and move on. We're certainly curious people, we just simply either dont care for the subject, or in my personal case so far, the person pleading the case. 

P. S. Anyone who takes 150 pills a day isn't a genius. He's simply an AIDS victim. He's not seeking perfection, but just the placebo effect. But as you've already said, to each his own.
post updated on Jun 24, 2012 @ 3:16am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 24, 2012 @ 10:52am

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: House Lannister

Look rhyperior, unless you care to display actual logical arguments (facts and science would be nice), what you say is meaningless. Your entire posts consist of 100% opinion. Why don't you take a sec to actually google who Ray Kurzweil is before calling him an 'AIDS victim' (whatever that means). He IS a genius and to be respected, rather than idolize some stupid sports player, as so much of society loves to do. Your posts are all full of similar opinion about topics, without involving science or even logic. You obviously know nothing about science, diet, nutrition, etc! Why are you dismissing something you know nothing about? That to me is ignorant and demonstrates a complete lack of intellectual curiosity.

Also, I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to reveal what I have learned. And I've used ONLY logical arguments, albiet logic using nutritional science. Unless you're unable to understand anything I've said in this thread, I don't see how you can make the claim of no logic.

Did you not see the references and explanation of terms like:
- inflammation / omega 6:3 ratio
- good fat vs. bad fat
- dairy's casein protein acting as a carcinogen
- animal protein in general acting as a carcinogen
- glycemic index / blood sugar spikes
- wheat gluten ] digestive system issues ] autoimmune disorders
- aging pathways / calorie restriction / resveratrol

If you actually care to read what I've written, rather than happily parade your ignorance, you would see your concerns about logic (which MUST include science) have already been addressed.

Now, if you have specific questions like your brother Marky did, feel free to ask. I've already said I'm happy to explain things on a point-by-point basis.
post updated on Jun 24, 2012 @ 11:03am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 25, 2012 @ 8:21am

 tim_saxton

Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: "Cleaning" your Zigs....

Deputy
All you people and your big fancy arguments....I have already made all the points I needed too....BOOM!!!!

I would also point out that true veganism requires an almost religious like fervour to a) buy into and b) maintain.

Reality is, like any religion veganism relies on 1) 1 part perceived need 2) parts faith. (didn't mean for that to sound so sarcastic) 

The fact is, diets like religion have been done to death, there is a book supporting any view.....

But any heathy weight can be maintained by moderation. As nanno alluded to, our bodies rather suck at extracting nutrients out of supplements, but are quite effective at extracting those same nutrients out of normal food.

And bacon is the food of Gods.....you fools

Bodies are complex machines.....rarely does output directly correspond with input.
post updated on Jun 25, 2012 @ 8:26am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 25, 2012 @ 8:34am

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 651
Location: here

"rarely does output directly correspond with input"
I disagree. Input always corresponds to some level of output, however the output-change to input ratio may often be small.


-Kunckles

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