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Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 26, 2012 @ 10:51pm

 marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7160
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
"Also, yes I'm sure there are multiple factors in these biological causes of death, but I argue that diet is a LARGE and highly significant factor."

And now we've reached a statement I can agree with. (I'd not add as much emphasis on diet, depending on which condition we're talking about from the list, but it's close enough)
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 26, 2012 @ 11:00pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1414
Location: House Lannister

re: diet vs. coronary heart disease

A nice study on PREVENTING heart disease (#1 cause of death) here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11458281 

Summary:
"In the last decade, our understanding of the nutrients and foods most likely to promote cardiac health has improved substantially, owing in part to the data from several large and carefully conducted prospective cohort studies, including the Nurses' Health Study (NHS) and Health Professionals' Follow-up Study (HPFS). Using more refined dietary assessment tools and multiple measurements, the NHS and HPFS have provided a wealth of information not only on major types of fat and different classes of fatty acids, but also other aspects of diet, including antioxidants, folate, fiber, dietary glycemic load, and overall dietary patterns. These studies, along with metabolic, clinical and other epidemiological studies, have provided strong evidence for a major role of dietary modification in the prevention of coronary heart disease (CHD)."
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 1:28am

 chi-ro

Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: 3907
Location: The cluster behind you..

Under-Sheriff
For car crashes, just make sure to purchase a very safe vehicle with lots of safety features and drive carefully. 1 in 8 might die from a crash, but remember that even the AVERAGE IQ is pretty low. As long as you're fairly intelligent, I'm sure you can make good choices and lower your risk of death from car crashes, etc. to near 0.
.


First off, car crashes generally involve multiple parties. And it only takes one of them being idiots. You driving safely don't reduce your chances by that much. You cannot control the drunk person running a red light about to t-bone you.

Some people can buy overly safe cars. A lot of people can't afford that, and even if you can that's hardly going to save your life in every case. 

So no, making good choices will not lower your chances of being in a car crash to near 0. Not even almost remotely near 0. I'm not arguing with much of your dietary debate, but this is utter and complete nonsense.

as I said to nanno above, your 'food allergies' are most likely caused by something in your diet that is incompatible with your specific needs, or by missing nutrients.


Most likely? No. These are causes, but they're not even remotely the only causes. You're just generalizing a part of a fact to cover the whole thing in order to strengthen your cause. Not because they really are the most likely causes.

As I've pointed out, I'm no expert in most of this, but allergies are something I know first hand, and have a large number of friends and family who also directly deal with this. This simply isn't the case.

Food allergies often disappear, as far as I have seen from my research, once your diet is changed to reflect more whole, plant-based foods, and less refined, processed foods.


Often, again, no. ALL allergies have the ability to come and/or go, and none are necessarily permanent. But they don't often do so. Most people go through their whole (or most of their) lives with different allergies, food or otherwise without them ever leaving. 

I would really like to see what research you've gotten this idea from. While I could spout plenty of stories of friends and family who've gone through this and had no change what so ever, I don't doubt that it may work for some people. And allergies are something I know a fair bit about and have some vested interest in, so I'm curious where you found this information.




Anyway...

While I don't doubt your diet works wonders for you. Most of what you've been saying here are taking small (some medium and even a few large) pieces of a lot of big pictures that when put together make an amazing work of art for you. But it's hardly the whole pictures of any of this. Most of it is highly situational and differs heavily from one person to another. I don't mean to belittle your diet or research in any way. But when you start going around passing it off as a one size fits all (or nearly all) perfect diet, I take a bit of issue.

Not to mention, even if I really really wanted to be my absolute healthiest, I could never afford (nor would I spend my money on) going so far out of my way to get all of these supplements, and foods necessary for your diet. I have MUCH bigger expenses to worry about that are much more immediately and directly effect my wellness of life.

Hate to be a downer, but it's just not practical.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 1:33am

 tim_saxton

Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Posts: 1293
Location: "Cleaning" your Zigs....

Deputy
Bacon.....where is he when you need a cogent argument built on facts....


BACON!!!!!!!!!   BACON?????
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 1:36am

 melek

Joined: Aug 14, 2010
Posts: 3614
Location: Hi

Bacon.....where is he when you need a cogent argument built on facts....


BACON!!!!!!!!!   BACON?????



He's getting in my hamburger
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 8:29am

 Nanno

Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Colorado

The Queen Bee
KIR4, your assertion that all humans have the same dietary requirements because they are genetically the same species is absolute bunk. Horses are also genetically the same species as each other, but they all have very different dietary requirements depending on their genetics. People who raise animals such as horses understand that their very different individual genetic makeup allows them to digest or not digest certain roughages and grains. They're all different from their metabolism to the specific enzymes in their bodies, which can make one horse require a heavy amount of alfalfa and grain in his diet just to maintain weight while another would founder and die on the same. And don't try to tell me that my horse who is allergic to alfalfa got his food allergy from enriched wheat flour! Horses eat one of the most "natural" diets on the planet (fresh grass, unprocessed whole grains, etc.) and yet they too have allergies and widely differing metabolic requirements from one another. I see no reason why people aren't very much alike in this regard. 

Take your heavy vegetable recommendation, for example. Well, it won't work for someone like Phil who gets violently sick on vegetables, will it? The fact that you say people should avoid dairy foods tells me you're out of your depth. I do better on dairy foods than anything else. I believe I could be almost perfectly healthy on a diet of nothing but milk and cheese because it works for me. My body loves and craves these foods and does very well on them. Yours may not. I can accept that about you, so you should accept that my body requires heavy doses of daily dairy. I've been known to drink as much as half a gallon of milk per day. Now I'm down to about one quart per day. I've known women who struggled with bone density problems whose bone density increased significantly just by drinking one glass of milk per day. Milk is seriously awesome stuff. For my body, it's the "perfect food". It's ok if it's not perfect for you. Maybe you can't metabolize it properly. But don't tell me it's bad for my health because it simply is not. 

Have you ever listened to your body when it craves something? Pregnant women are the classic "cravers", and it usually means that their body requires some vitamin or mineral that it's lacking in supporting the growing fetus. I've known several hard-core vegetarians and vegans who ended up having to eat meat and dairy during pregnancy because they couldn't absorb things like vitamin B12 from their supplements. The fact is, the only good natural source of vitamin B12 is animal products: meat or dairy. From what I understand this is because the only place this vitamin is produced is in an animal's gut. If people in American are vitamin B12 deficient, then I'd say it's probably because they're not consuming enough milk. ;)
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 8:39am

 socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1937
Location: =3

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Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 8:57am

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 650
Location: here

lol, exactly socratic. :-)


-Kunckles
post updated on Jun 27, 2012 @ 8:58am
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 9:20am

 Nanno

Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Colorado

The Queen Bee
If all humans' bodies work the same way and have the same requirements, then it only follows logically that everyone is going to have the same food allergies if they eat the same diet as one another. But obviously that's not the case. My brother and I grew up on the same diet, but as far as I know, he's the only person in our entire family history ever to get hives from a cantaloupe. 

But then, allergies and reactions are tricky things. I'm one of the only people I know who is not allergic to poison ivy. I don't tend to react very much to stings or insect bites either. Mosquitoes tend to avoid me and hit Phil. But if there's a cold going around, I'm more likely to get it than Phil. Whodathunk? What I'm saying is that we're all very unique and our bodies react to things differently from each other, regardless of the fact that we are the same species.  

I have a funny story about one of my great-grandfathers. When he was 96 his doctor told him he had to stop eating those deep-fried southern foods and decadent desserts that my great-grandmother had been preparing for him his whole life, and that he had to quit smoking (he'd been smoking 2 packs of Camels a day since he was 15 years old). He tried the health food diet and tossed the cigarettes but was so unhappy that he began to waste away. After about two months he went back on his high cholesterol, high blood pressure diet, declaring that if old age didn't kill him the health food diet surely would! He lived about two more years and died a happy man, cigarettes and all. 

This story serves to illustrate the point that being happy is probably more important than the specifics of your diet. I tried eating an organic gluten-free, dairy-free pizza one time and it tasted horrible. The "cheese" (if you could call it that) tasted like plastic with fake microwave popcorn butter flavoring on it. I would not be happy on such a diet. I believe quality of life is more important than (and a huge contributor to) quantity of life, and quality of life for me includes things like milk, steak, pizza, Dr. Pepper, coconut cream pie, Texas cheese fries, ice cream, flaky pie crusts properly made with real lard, fresh peaches swimming in cream and sugar, Oreo cookies, popcorn dripping with melted butter, and did I mention BACON drenched in real maple syrup? 

If you ask me, jogging for 20 minutes in the LA smog will probably do you more harm than any of the foods mentioned above.

But seriously, what is the point of living a long time if you're going to deny yourself all the things that make life enjoyable? Perhaps YOU don't think those foods enhance your quality of life, but I do. And when it comes right down to it, being happy will probably make you live longer and live better than a person who does all the "right things" but isn't happy. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/03/the-longevity-project-decades-of-data-reveal-paths-to-long-life/72290/
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 12:03pm

 chi-ro

Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: 3907
Location: The cluster behind you..

Under-Sheriff
But then, allergies and reactions are tricky things. I'm one of the only people I know who is not allergic to poison ivy. I don't tend to react very much to stings or insect bites either. Mosquitoes tend to avoid me and hit Phil. But if there's a cold going around, I'm more likely to get it than Phil.


Yes, Poison ivy is an example of an allergy that about 85% of the worlds population has. It's not because they've done something special to acquire it, or the others have done something special to lose it. I've never gotten poison ivy in my life, all of my friends and family have.

Most allergies are just a fact of life. They will never come if you don't have them, and never leave if you do. Food or otherwise.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 10:00pm

 wezley007

Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 732
Location: World of Wezley

I noticed that no one has respondeded to my igloo claim.
If we all lived in igloos the fat would freeze off us so diets wouldn't matter.
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 27, 2012 @ 10:02pm

 melek

Joined: Aug 14, 2010
Posts: 3614
Location: Hi

What about cholesterol Wuzleh
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 10:07am

 wezley007

Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 732
Location: World of Wezley

no /care's about that crap. Diets are stupid. This thread would be pointless if we all lived in igloos
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 1:09pm

 tim_saxton

Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Posts: 1293
Location: "Cleaning" your Zigs....

Deputy
Bacon.....where is he when you need a cogent argument built on facts....


BACON!!!!!!!!!   BACON?????



He's getting in my hamburger



Whoo...good thing, thought we lost him...


....NO WAIIIITTTTT
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 3:00pm

 roxie

Joined: Apr 3, 2010
Posts: 2358
Location: Bah.

Eat bacon and you will live forever.

End of story
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 6:38pm

 kunckles

Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Posts: 650
Location: here

Bacon + Hamburger = Really Yummy


-Kunckles
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 6:59pm

 krazykyler98

Joined: May 15, 2011
Posts: 2803
Location: Tattoine, Dune Sea

Bacon + Hamburger = Really Yummy


-Kunckles


Indeed^

@the post below: me too!
post updated on Jun 28, 2012 @ 7:30pm
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 7:22pm

 melek

Joined: Aug 14, 2010
Posts: 3614
Location: Hi

Bacon + Hamburger = Really Yummy


-Kunckles



Im hungry now
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 9:42pm

 wezley007

Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 732
Location: World of Wezley

We are getting off the igloo subject now. I'm sure you are all thinking "OMFG! I WANT A BACON HAMBURGAR NAO!", but this is some super cereal shizzles! If you lived in an igloo you wouldn't have to worry about a diet!
Re: Chat Discussion: Healthy Diets :: Jun 28, 2012 @ 9:52pm

 KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1414
Location: House Lannister

wezley007, I see you're still a troll...

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