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Forums :: Galcon Fusion :: Strategy :: How to break a 3-way standoff

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How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 5:45pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
So, I'm not really giving tips here, I'm actually asking y'all, how do you break 3-way standoffs? (without giving the game, of course)

My current techniques:
-trading places: This works sometimes, depending on how silly/stubborn the player you're trading with.

-turtling: I try this, but normally (unless you're playing someone new), it's hard to use this to your advantage. Normally the other two just sit and outproduce you.

-trucing:  This works about half the time for me. Worst case scenario (excluding nothing happening), the other two decide to attack you, which is a good thing.

-standoff counter: This usually tends to do very little, people just let someone borrow a tiny planet and then take it back.

These strategies only work occasionally, usually by the time everyone's ready to kill themselves to avoid the boredom. Anyone have any better ideas? I'd really like to enjoy ffa again.

note: I realize there is already a post on this. Oops. Still, the preexisting post doesn't say anything that I can't already think of. Does anyone have any new ideas?

edit: added note.
post updated on Apr 5, 2010 @ 6:13pm
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 6:27pm

Cabin Boy txgangsta

Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 4001
Location: Texas

Ya, those are the same tactics I like. I don't know if there are any more effective ones.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 7:22pm

Cabin Boy quickrime

Joined: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 178

I also find sending a constant stream of ships from one or more planets to attack an opponent to be an occasionally effective tactic. Often opponents will respond with an attack to remove the irksome planet and discourage further similar attacks. Ironically, this only encourages more. Of course, this does cost ships and is not always successful, like any strategy.

As much as I hesitate to direct you to an iPhone galcon thread, many of the 3-way strategies discussed here:
http://www.galcon.com/forums/14/15/2869/?cur=12 
may be at the very least considered and compared to the Fusion environment, with possible benefit.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 7:29pm

Cabin Boy tinny

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 896

marky1991, your current techniques all involve some form of camping except for trucing. trading places? this does nothing and just prolongs the game. might as well camp. turtling? camping. standoff counter? camping... i think phil should add a feature where when there's a standoff kumbaya music should start playing (similar to can can) and we should all hold hands and roast marshmallows around the campfire. 

if you want the game to end then you need to reduce the number of ships on the board. you do this by attacking. not just trading places but actively killing off yours and another person's ships. attack someone. anybody. it doesnt matter. eventually there'll be one person clearly ahead in ship count and the two other people will attack him. the end.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 8:23pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
"trading places? this does nothing and just prolongs the game."

Not normally. It depends on who you're playing with. No matter what, it changes planet ownership, inevitably leading to some kind of fight for planets. Hopefully, the shuffle leads to a chain reaction of battles, eventually leading to all out war. However, when you're playing experienced players, the chain reactions tend to restrain themselves.

" turtling?"

This does the same thing that trading places does and more, actually. Firstly, it leads to small battles. Secondly, it can dramatically change the power structure. This can quite often force someone to attack someone, once they become too big.

"standoff counter?"

I already said this was ineffective.

"if you want the game to end then you need to reduce the number of ships on the board."

I don't just want to end the game, I want to end the game and win.  

This is unrelated to camping. Camping is what I want to stop, I just don't know how to do it without throwing the game. This isn't about camping, let's not go there.

Just attacking doesn't work; it's been tried countless times and usually ends in failure. Any other ideas?
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 8:36pm

Cabin Boy sky_lark

Joined: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1236
Location: North Carolina

Something to NOT do: Mindlessly attack another player with a tiny amount of ships over and over. I couldn't tell if that's what you were suggesting or not. Why not do it? Because you're provoking them. Whenever somebody does this to me it's quite irritating... like people drumming their fingers. At first it's no biggie but after a while it's not cool.

I usually turtle and surrender. Of course, I usually get screwed, but the game moves (sometimes...).

I can also suggest making a mess. If somebody goes to trade places with you, move to your left or right.

One more thing: Truce with everybody. Mwahaha.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 8:45pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
"Something to NOT do: Mindlessly attack another player with a tiny amount of ships over and over."

But don't you think this would at least help to restart the war? I mean, it's likely to get you attacked, but you can always combine the strategy with turtling. Don't you think?

"...truce with everyone..."

That's so lame, lol.

edit: added part about trucing.
post updated on Apr 5, 2010 @ 8:46pm
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 9:01pm

Cabin Boy txgangsta

Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 4001
Location: Texas

Tip I just thought of to get the ball rolling better:

If someone wants to swap with you, fly at player number 3. Get everyone moving, maybe there will be some fighting, and hopefully the round goes quicker.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 9:27pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
Sorry for ignoring you, I didn't notice your post. 

"I also find sending a constant stream of ships from one or more planets to attack an opponent to be an occasionally effective tactic."

I kind of like that strategy too, though I think that a normal attack would basically do the same thing. 

"As much as I hesitate to direct you to an iPhone galcon thread, many of the 3-way strategies discussed here:"

There's nothing wrong with posting iphone threads, as long as they are relevant to fusion. I've read that thread before, unfortunately, I didn't see anything not posted here. (though they are detailed in much greater detail there.)
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 10:05pm

Cabin Boy tinny

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 896

you and i see games a lot differently.

the way i see it, trading places is about capturing your enemy's planets faster than he captures yours so that you come out with more ships. trading places is the SLOW way of winning and only works if you're faster. 

if you wanted it to "lead to all out war" then why not just START at this point? you dont need to trade places to go all out. 

turtling is camping. 

"Camping is what I want to stop"

"Just attacking doesn't work; it's been tried countless times and usually ends in failure."

so you dont want to camp and you dont want to attack.. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 10:56pm

Commander frysauce

Joined: Feb 7, 2010
Posts: 196
Location: Guatemala

Turtling in itself is not camping. Often times turtling leads to camping, but just as often it leads to fighting.

example: It is a 3-way and you have quite a few planets. Everyone is camping. You send 100% to a single planet, and surrender before your ships get there. You almost always keep most or all of your ships. There is suddenly a mass of low cost neutral planets.
one of 4 things usually happen.
a)The other two guys start to fight over your old planets. It leads to war, and you can take over when they kill each other.
b)Someone decides to attack your single planet (often while taking your neutrals simultaneously) if they use a lot the third person attacks them, and if not you still have plenty of ships...
c)Someone sends 100% at your old planets. Then simply take their planets, and it's the same as trading places. Rinse and repeat.
d)the others in the game take your planets, but don't attack each other. This is the scenario most likely to lead to further camping, but you still have most/all of your ships. You have enough to attack. It is wiser to wait, but it was also wiser to wait pre-turtle anyway.

All of the likely outcomes result in fighting, or you retaining the option to attack. True, the others could decide to team and kill your single planet, but it is very unlikely

EDIT: forgot one.
e)One person takes all of your old planets. Simply truce against, and destroy that person. (Or let the other guy attack him and clean up afterward)
post updated on Apr 6, 2010 @ 12:45am
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 5, 2010 @ 11:38pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
"...if you wanted it to "lead to all out war" then why not just START at this point?..."

Because you don't want to be the one to start the war. You don't even want to be involved; you want to do a nice little neutral cost (more or less, you can try to manipulate it to own more for a small period of time, but at fusion scales, whoever trades for the cluster with more planets is going to easily exceed the negligible advantage.) and let the others do the real fighting (assuming they don't target you.) 

Why make your pilots crash into planets when your enemies will happily sacrifice their own?

"...so you don't want to camp and you don't want to attack..."

I never said that I don't want to attack, that is impossible. (unless you really want to play forever.) I want to clean up after my enemies have weakened each other. 

Anyway, this discussion is really getting off-topic. This thread is not about camping or anyone's opinion on the techniques previously mentioned. (unless you're discussing their efficiency or how to improve them.) I just want to know if anyone has any better ideas; my ideas only work sometimes and are very limited in effectiveness.

edit: changed rhetorical question's wording. 

edit2: Some moronic apostrophe snuck into one of my sentences where it clearly did not belong. The problem was dealt with and the grammar was checked by hand. (apparently, my spell checker only checks spelling, not grammar. : (  )
post updated on Apr 5, 2010 @ 11:42pm
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 12:43am

Commander frysauce

Joined: Feb 7, 2010
Posts: 196
Location: Guatemala

Turtling is my favorite method. 

If you are playing against good players sometimes they retreat if you attack, since they know they will lose if they get in a big fight with you. You can dramatically increase your planet holdings w/ very little ship loss, but whoever was your victim will want revenge as soon as they can get it.

Occasionally I also attack someone w/ 50% they usually mistake it for 100%, and you can kill a lot of ships if two people both attack your planets, which still have half your holding on them. It usually doesn't result in a win though :(
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 1:44am

Cabin Boy tinny

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 896

"Because you don't want to be the one to start the war."
yes you do. you're the one who wants to break the standoff. youre the one who wants end the game. so it's up to you to start the war.

"I just want to know if anyone has any better ideas"
your idea of a "better idea" is based solely around conserving 100% of your ships and hoping someone will attack someone else. my idea is to lower the number of ships on the board. how can anyone win if each player has a gazillion ships each? attack someone. anyone. it doesnt matter as long as there isnt one person who has more than the other two combined. 

you need to get out of this camper style mind set, winning only by backstabbing or from other people's mistakes. a successful man makes his own luck. start the war. reduce the number of ships. win from there.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 7:14am

Cabin Boy txgangsta

Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 4001
Location: Texas

Another tip:

If its a four player game, but player 4 is rather small (0-3 planets) camp for a while, build stocks, and then let the small player take your planets. Tell him to, and make him agree. Now player 4 gets your big planets, and you can sit on his three with a giant hoard. This take the attention off of you, and you can sit there and wait for them to fight. Then, when they are weak enough, kill them.

Note: This tactic requires camping. This tactic requires patience. If you have more patience than the other 3 players, you win.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 9:47am

Cabin Boy grimccc

Joined: Mar 10, 2010
Posts: 129

This usually works for me: agree to swap with two players at the same time, and go for the smaller cluster of the two players; this will eventually lead to an all out fight between the two players over your planets.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 10:28am

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7281
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
Interesting, I like that strategy!  Thanks grim! 

And of course tx's strategy works too, but that's the kind of strategy I'm trying to learn how to avoid. But it definitely works, even on experienced players.
post updated on Apr 6, 2010 @ 10:29am
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 12:43pm

Cabin Boy sky_lark

Joined: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1236
Location: North Carolina

Evil strategy grimcc; I was nearly crushed! But it's quite clever.

I suppose sending a tiny stream of ships over and over works to get them to attack, but if both people are doing it, then that's just cruel. 

I think when it comes down to it you just need to take risks. Make it clear that you're simply trying to get the battle going and they should understand.
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 3:21pm

Cabin Boy zephyr1843

Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 110

Tinny why does it matter how many ships there are?
In an all out war, thousands of ships can be destroyed every second.
Even if each player starts with 25K (about the highest I've ever seen), the game could be finished in less than a minute.
But if you want to win, you have to induce or wait for the other two players to fight each other. There simply is no way around this with the current rules of the game. 
Personally I'm finding this is driving me away from FFA, since assuming a certain calibur of player, winning comes down to patience, luck, and only a small dependance on micro skills.
There is certainly a wide spectrum of skills and tactics that can be developed to bait and manipulate weaker players, but I find these games pretty boring.
If only they would fix the utterly broken team game matchmaking....
Re: How to break a 3-way standoff :: Apr 6, 2010 @ 5:50pm

Cabin Boy txgangsta

Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 4001
Location: Texas

Another 'nother tip: Take a planet in the middle of your opponents, then leave it. Maybe player3 will take it, and he and player2 will fight over it. It doesn't work on more experienced players that know not to pick a fight that easily in a three way.

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