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Re: Diplomacy :: Jun 3, 2012 @ 11:06am

Cabin Boy TheCount

Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Posts: 277
Location: in darkness

Being diplomatic, especially with the actions of your ships, is very effective. 

In my opinion, manipulation involves deception (not the player by that name). For example, if you say "I promise not to attack you if you attack so-and-so." and then you do attack them anyway - you manipulated/deceived them. Or if you give false advice, "Attack so-and-so because .....", when you are, in fact, the one they should attack. When people discover the manipulation, they will often turn around and suicide you, or suicide you next game.

Diplomacy is the art of gifts and goodwill. You can make people like you with token gestures that don't cost much. Do things like: leave the neutrals between you untaken, avoid attacking them even when you could, clearly offer them a planet for seemingly no reason, or look like you are removing forces from next to them to next to the common enemy. None of these things required talking. They do put you at a real, albeit small, disadvantage that shows you trust the player you are trying to befriend.

What makes diplomacy different is that giving them a planet or not attacking them is not a lie. It also does not involve them promising to do something for you. If you are genuinely nice to them, they will attack someone else on their own. That is the beauty of real diplomacy. Getting people to do what you want them to do without lies or promises.

And in the end when you do attack "your friend" for the win, they wont feel like you tricked them because you never made any promises and you were nice to them. This prevents revenge suicides later on.

Why do Brazilians speak Portuguese today and not Spanish? The Spanish conquistadors were there first, but they tried to conquer with guns. The Portuguese instead came bearing gifts. 

Edit - grammar and syntax
post updated on Jun 3, 2012 @ 10:51pm
Re: Diplomacy :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:02am

Cabin Boy __oo__

Joined: Jun 10, 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Under Your Desk

Bump
Re: Diplomacy :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:42pm

Cabin Boy mrpickles

Joined: Feb 7, 2011
Posts: 81

diplomacy/manipulation is just wrong

We should never allow this travesty to enter into fair game play.  :)
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:22pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

There is NO diplomacy. Unless THIS occurs.

1. Two people agree to team together
2. They both agree to not attack each other
3. They decide early on that one will let the other win
4. One might want, let's say just revenge and doesn't care to win
5. In the end, both players survive and the one who promised to die or surrender shall die.

If all of these conditions are met, then THAT is Diplomacy.
Ah but it is diplomacy that is unseen. Unheard. Invisible. Diplomacy in Galcon occurs in Private Messages. Not Public messages. Public messages consist of banter, lies,or used for manipulation and deception.

It all comes together, but we all know that in the end.. Diplomacy is in fact but an invisible force in Galcon that will effect the outcomes of battles for many millenia to come.
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:27pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7282
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
No, that's teaming. Diplomacy consists of far more than that. (I'd almost argue that that isn't diplomacy at all. It is, but only barely)
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:31pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

Marky it wasn't necessary to throw in all the arguments back in forth in that process. I thought it'd be assumed..
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:41pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7282
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
What?
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:45pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

The acts of diplomacy through private messages? You have to argue this and that before an agreement is made.
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:49pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7282
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
But this: "They decide early on that one will let the other win "

doesn't have to occur for diplomacy. A counterargument is a simple peace agreement, where both parties benefit.

Also, diplomacy can happen in public chat. That's the only way I engage in diplomacy as marky1991.


edit: Mentioned that diplomacy can happen in public chat.
post updated on Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:50pm
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:55pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

What about the instances where one person asks for anothers allegiance and he refuses? Then the process of diplomacy begins when they begin discussing terms and manipulating one another (if at all). 

When I played fusion, I made 1-4 alliances every single match. Most of those ran at the same time.
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 9:30pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7282
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
Hmm? What about them?
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 9:39pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

I'm completley lost on what we are arguing over now haha.
Re: Diplomacy - Socratic's Take :: Jun 12, 2012 @ 9:51pm

Cabin Boy marky1991

Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 7282
Location: Douglasville, GA

Deputy
Me too, lol. Nice.
Re: Diplomacy :: Jun 13, 2012 @ 12:54pm

Cabin Boy TheCount

Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Posts: 277
Location: in darkness

Socratic, I think what you are discussing is teaming which can be the result of either diplomacy or manipulation.

Typed or not, an agreement of the kind you describe above means they are essentially acting as a team. That is a very specific and looked-down-upon situation.

Diplomacy as described by original post and mine previous is much more general. It simply means 'how you deal with other players that can affect gameplay'. That can include talking with someone about their dog to make them like you as much as 'will you help me kill blue'.

I described the art of diplomacy as how you treat people to get them to do what you want.

I hope that helps. I feel like I have talked this subject to death.
Re: Diplomacy :: Jun 14, 2012 @ 9:36pm

Cabin Boy socratic

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 1938
Location: =3

TheCount, thank you for your word of wisdom.

"Socratic, I think what you are discussing is teaming which can be the result of either diplomacy or manipulation." 

Agreed.

"Typed or not, an agreement of the kind you describe above means they are essentially acting as a team. That is a very specific and looked-down-upon situation. "

Acting as a team requires diplomacy to take place or some form of argument or agreement, and in some cases manipulation (if you know how to).

As far as diplomacy goes, I will not lie when I say that in the past, I have most definently manipulated hundreds of players on fusion into helping me win. It could range from a few kind words, little whispers that so-and-so is too big, or even letting another player who has lost his home stay alive. The very base of diplomacy and manipulation begin with how you treat those you talk to and what you do in order to get them to do what you want.

You and I pretty much see eye to eye TheCount. Which is why it makes us great players :D
post updated on Jun 14, 2012 @ 9:37pm
Re: Diplomacy :: Aug 6, 2012 @ 12:34am

Cabin Boy ipcress

Joined: Feb 7, 2009
Posts: 1887
Location: Get off my lawn!

"Little whispers."

What a creeper.
Re: Diplomacy :: Aug 6, 2012 @ 1:12am

Cabin Boy KlR4

Joined: Jan 5, 2012
Posts: 1628
Location: House Lannister

"Little whispers."

What a creeper.

LOL ipcress. I love how you hone in on two words from an entire thread... Funniest person alive.
Re: Diplomacy :: Aug 6, 2012 @ 8:50am

Ensign KylerCA

Joined: May 5, 2012
Posts: 981
Location: Error 404: not found

Unecessary necropsy detected. *ALARM*
post updated on Aug 6, 2012 @ 8:51am

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